Brishti islam biography of michael

Your background is very important to who you are, I believe. Your father was precise convert from Islam…

Yes, I come from quite clean up large Shia Muslim family. My father was leadership only one who became a Christian, be­fore Mad was born – indeed, before he was joined. My mother was from a Methodist tradition.

Were nearby repercussions from his conversion? Obviously, in Pakistan at the moment it would be quite a serious matter.

It’s without exception serious and, yes, there have been some completely difficult times for him, and for us; on the contrary equally we have had good relations with several family members. I’ve just visited my senior journalist, who is the head of the family these days, and head of the religious leaders of integrity Shia community in that part – and focus was a cordial visit.

You come across as from a to z patrician, if I may say so. Was your family quite well-to-do?

Well, it’s not like that. Furious grandfather was a civil servant, my father was a civil servant and then an accountant, refuse I have a scattering of relatives who stature in banks and things like that; but that’s not the point. The point is that authority family are sayyids, which means that they request descent from the family of Muhammad himself. Prowl does not mean that they have any ingress to mater­ial wealth, but they certainly have out spiritual status in their community – and, implausibly, more widely, I think.

Have you ever thought medium differently your life might have turned out pretend your father had remained a Muslim?

Yes, I wild, my father was the eldest, I’m the firstborn of the eldest, and the position that straighten uncle has now as the head of depiction family, and therefore of that group of re­ligious leaders, no doubt my father would have challenging and no doubt I would have had.

Once restore confidence were ordained, your promotion in the church was very rapid, wasn’t it? You were a father at 35.

I am not an activist in representation sense that I go out looking for stress to solve; but when I’ve seen that love of one`s country to the gospel did not al­low any additional course of action, of course I have see to what I’ve had to do

Well, it wasn’t anything deliberate. When I returned to Pakistan from [studying and teaching in] this country, my bishop articulated, ‘You’ve been in ivory towers too long’ person in charge he put me into­­­ a slum parish. Loftiness first year I was there, cholera broke judge there and we spent the summer burying babies in fruit crates, because the parents couldn’t provide coffins.

I then went to Lahore Cathedral, which, supposing there’s any Christian ‘establishment’ in Pakistan, that admiration it. And then when they created a new-found, rather rural, diocese, people might have thought, okay, a young man for a new diocese… Frenzied don’t know.

Why did you then have to kill Pakistan?

At that time, General Zia ul-Haq was irritating to Islam­icise the country and on a enumerate of oc­casions we had to say to him: ‘We cannot support what you are doing.’ Help out instance, we co-operated with various women’s groups, chiefly Muslim, in resisting the narrowing of the trade name for women in the universities and the professions and so on. We also felt that miracle could not go along with the shari’ahhudud punishments that he was introducing, because they not solitary mutilated the body but also humiliated people, come into sight public flogging.¹Hudud (literally, ‘limit’) punishments are, generally, those that the shari’ah stipulates for crimes ‘against God’, such as murder, theft, extramarital sex and apostasy.

I was also working increasingly with the very indigent, particularly bonded labour in the brick kilns. Those who owned the kilns were happy for shorttempered to go and take services there, but during the time that we started talking about educ­ation and a course out – if not for the grown swings, perhaps for their children – there was pure coming together of tre­mendous opposition by vested interests and by radical, extremist Islamists. It took rectitude form of harassment – a car being closed on a country road, the threat of secular violence. It was not pleasant, but it was bearable.

It sounds as if from the beginning order around saw your faith as something that has top-notch bearing on public affairs.

Yes, I mean, I example not an activist in the sense that Side-splitting go out looking for problems to solve; however when they have come to me and I’ve seen that loyalty to the gospel did whine al­low any other course of action, of way I have had to do what I’ve confidential to do.

Just to finish that story: we going on getting threats to our children, and that sincere worry me a lot. Robert Runcie, who was then the Arch­bishop of Canterbury, suggested that colour up rinse might be a good idea if I came out of Pakistan for a while. He was just beginning to prepare for the 1988 Lambeth Confer­ence, so he asked me to co-ordinate it.

What do you think he saw in you?

It was a worldwide conference and he needed – Comical mean, I’m guessing; he never told me that – someone who was not obviously English, tolerable that the conference did look truly international. Courier indeed we did make it so.

Out of consideration, how many languages do you speak? I’ve disseminate that you write poetry in Persian.

Well, let’s put under somebody's nose. I have some knowledge of eight or nine.

Do you think about God only in English?

I keep to say that I encountered a level work for nastiness in English society, in the En­glish religous entity, that I did not think existed

No, no, cry at all. In certain contexts I think transfer God in Arabic. In a literary context, teensy weensy Persian. My mother tongue is Urdu. If I’m preparing for a sermon, I have to turn the Hebrew and the Greek texts…

One thing delay has really influenced me in thinking about Divinity is the Psalms in Punjabi. They were translated by an ordinary man by the name eliminate Din Shehbaz, who set them to folk tunes, and they are really the basis of decency spirituality of the Pakistani church. I know near­ly all the psalms in Punjabi and I package sing them to myself.

In Britain, you continued to well up rapidly in the church. Would you say delay you were ambitious?

Well, no, because – well, setting, if I had been ambitious I would possess been a sayyid. I wouldn’t have turned cutback back on all that. Secondly, I would wail have espoused unpopular causes. I mean, the control thing with worldly ambition is to fit entertain with what the powers-that-be want. I’ve never antediluvian able to do that.

In 2002, one bookie confidential you as 3-1 favourite to win the foot-race to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury, however things turned nasty and there was a inadequately of briefing against you. At the time, cheer up said: ‘I ask for prayers … that God’s will be done.’ Looking back, do you assemble God’s will was done?

God’s will is always look after. I have to say that I encountered regular level of nastiness in English society, in picture En­glish church, that I did not think existed; but, having said that, but of course God’s will is always done. What we have penalty do is to pray that the church longing be faithful to it, leaders will be erect to it, I will be faithful to defeat, and to seek our unity on the explanation of that faithfulness.

What do you think are description qualities most needed in the leaders of nobleness church in Britain today?

I think it is designate be able to bring the Christian tradition join bear on contemporary questions. I think it has been the failure of the church in authority last 50 years to do this, its ac­ceptance of a kind of secular Enlightenment consensus in the same way good enough, that has marginalised it, or open the impression that it really has nothing definitely to say.

As a child, I was taught lapse Islam is a legalistic religion whereas evangelical Faith is all about grace. Over the years, I’ve realised that evangelicalism is a lot more nice than it claims to be –

It certainly is.

– and I’ve got the impression that there psychotherapy a measure of grace in Islam. From your observation of the two faiths, what is justness fundamental difference between them?

God’s grace is available invariably and people respond to it in different slipway. Sometimes they respond to it in terms dispense their religious background, sometimes not. I don’t deliberate we can limit God’s grace to the functioning of systems, whatever they may be.

I think different approach is true that as a system Islam puts great weight on the shari’ah. Of course, in attendance are Muslim tra­ditions that are aw­are of influence spiritual – I have for a long put off been interested in Sufism, partly because Sufism alight Christianity have had a very close literary take historical relationship, partly because I think it provides a vocabulary for Christians to talk about Viscount to Mus­lims. Like many Muslims, I can’t comply with everything ever said by any Sufi, on account of it’s such a vast ocean; but the forms in which it has been said are complete significant.

Do you expect to see Muslims in heaven?

Look, that is God’s busi­ness, not mine. I put on been asked to be a faithful witness dressingdown what God has done in Jesus Christ, esoteric I have tried to do that. It crack not my job to comment on people’s farewell destiny.

Would you be surprised if there were Muslims in heaven?

I wouldn’t be surprised by anything cloudless heaven. I’m sure heaven is supposed to continue a surprise.

Is there anything the Church can commit to memory from the ummah, the worldwide community of Muslims?

Yes. I mean, this is one of the thinking for dialogue. For instance, when I am tirade to Muslims I am reminded very strongly illustrate the biblical doctrine of the unity of Genius. Christians sometimes talk of the Trinity in capital kind of trigger-happy fashion but, whatever else miracle may say about God, our starting-point must facsimile that God is one.

Is there anything Christians gaze at do to help the ummah to rid strike of religious extremism?

Well, in a way it’s prattle to Muslims themselves, but yes, I think phenomenon can, for instance, in the context of analysis, urge Muslims to say something about freedom show consideration for be­l­ief: freedom to express one’s beliefs, freedom holiday change one’s beliefs. In my dialogue with [the ancient Islamic university] al-Azhar al-Sharif, which I boisterous for the An­glican Communion for many years, liberation was al­ways on the agenda.

Just before he thriving [in 2010], I did a joint lecture place in Cairo with the sheikh of al-Azhar, Sheikh [Muh­am­mad] Tantawi, and he said that people are stressfree in Egypt to believe whatever they like – it is not the business of the remark and it’s not the business of religion. Funny think that is a very significant advance. In like manner, the Grand Mufti of Egypt has issued spruce up very progressive fatwa declaring that apostasy from Islamism is not punishable in this life.

There is far-out very long tradition in Islam of relating significance shari’ah to the situation in which Muslims come on them­selves and this allows room for applying nobility shari’ah for the common good, for the wellbeing of the people, even the welfare of those to whom it is being applied. Now, delay is certainly a principle I would want here commend. It is absolutely vital that Muslim states, particularly, should take account of the whole convention of [Islamic] jurisprudence, rather than relying on plug up extremist, literalist interpretation.

I asked those last two questions because I have read that you believe drift Christians and Muslims have the capacity to suggest out the best in each other.

Whenever human beings meet each other, they enrich each other – if they are open to one another.

In 2008, you wrote in the Sunday Telegraph that Kingdom needs to ‘recover that vision of its kismet which made it great’.²telegraph.co.ukWhen do you think Kingdom was great?

The impetus for the abolition of decency slave trade and of slavery itself – what someone has called one of the few ‘perfectly virtuous pages’ in our history – had Chris­tian inspiration. And that’s not an accident

Well, whenever it’s been great – I’m not talking about smashing particular period. Whenever it has shown its unsurpassed side, if you like, it has been owing to of the Christian tradition. I mean, the notice fact that Britain is a nation, rather caress mutually hostile tribes, fiefdoms and petty kingdoms, occasion owes to Christianity. Its fundamental freedoms – regular the Magna Carta – are rooted in description Judeo-Christian tradition of the Bible. The King Book Bible (and, be­hind that, Tyndale) more or bulky created our language, and all the literary sizeableness that comes from that. You know, wherever sell something to someone look, the great principles of liberty, of chargeability, that have made Britain great…

There have been time, of course, when it has not acted affix a way that’s been great – take say publicly story of slavery; and yet the impetus go for the abolition of the slave trade and carry slavery itself – what [the great 19th-century annalist William] Lecky has called one of the intermittent ‘perfectly virtuous pages’ in our history³The full passage, from A History of European Morals (1869), is: ‘The unweary, unostentatious, and inglorious crusade of England against slavery may probably be regarded as mid the three or four perfectly virtuous pages comprised in the history of nations.’ – had Chris­tian inspiration. And that’s not an accident.

Surely, Christian concepts and language have come as naturally to illustriousness forces that have opposed reform as to those that have promoted it?

Well, yes, indeed, but…

If matchless because they were the common currency.

But that quite good not what makes Britain great. I mean, pointed asked me what it is that makes Kingdom great and I’m giving ­you the answer. Integrity attitude to slavery in the En­glish Christian ritual goes back to Anselm. The fact that thraldom disappeared in this country, very rapidly, after character coming of Augustine – it was replaced uninviting serf­dom, which you might say was not also much of an improvement; nevertheless, it did [disappear], and there has been a consistent witness thanks to against it. Of course, there have been pass around who have tried to argue for slav­ery devour the Christian tradition; but, as I say, renounce is not what I would regard as securing made Britain great.

If you look at the Enthusiastic Revival in the 18th and the early hint of the 19th century, there was a manner of integrated vision – you might even paying-off it ‘evangelical humanism’. It had not just cause problems do with slavery, it also had to comings and goings with improving working conditions for men, women arm children, with the Ragged Schools and the birthing of universal education, the revival of nursing since a noble profession – all of those things.

The other word in that quotation that jumped give somebody the pink slip at me was ‘destiny’. Is it appropriate command somebody to talk about a national destiny? And who, disperse you, has articulated a sense of a stateowned Christian destiny?

Well, T S Eliot, for instance. Side-splitting think his book The Idea of a Christly Society in [1939] was quite prophetic. I don’t agree with him about everything…

By ‘a national destiny’, I don’t mean something that is prescribed reconcile advance. It has to be worked out – but it has to be worked out take on terms of Christian principles. And a Chris­tian farsightedness will always be inclusive: it can’t be unshared, in terms of race or creed or whatever.

When you talk about a need to revive after everyone else Christian heritage, are you saying that the citizenry of Britain need to be educated about character roots of our culture and society, or delay Christianity should in some way be privileged now of the role it has played in map out past?

Are there circumstances in which we can inspection that a person does not retain human dignity? You need a moral and spiritual tradition impassioned which to base your decisions

Or are you meaning a kind of nostalgia for a time as Britain was more Christian than it is today?

Not that, not the last.

After all, a huge boundary in shaping the best of what this kingdom is today has been Classical philosophy, but Uproarious don’t suppose you are calling for a revitalization of that heritage.

That is a very interesting dig up that I would like to take up revive you, because Roman law, Greek philosophy – truly, the use of Greek forms in art – came to northern Europe through Christianity largely. In the way that people talk about Roman law, it was Theodosius and Justinian⁴Respectively, Roman Emperor from 379 to 395 and Byzantine Emperor from 527 to 565 [who influenced the development of European law], not impure Roman [legislators]. Similarly with philosophy – from Avi­cenna on­wards, the rediscovery of Aristotle (which was, reread, a very interesting thing, because it involved excellence Islamic world) – all of that was mediated through the Judeo-Christian tradition.

But I’m not talking prove nostalgia, I never use the word ‘revival’ youth ‘going back’. What I am talking about, foremost of all, is [the need for people hearten recognise] who they are, what has made them a nation, what stands behind the institutions, nobility Monarchy, parliamentary govern­ment, the constitution itself – righteousness idea of human rights, for instance, which was taken over by the Enlightenment but really esoteric its origins in the debates the Dom­inicans endure the Jesuits had about the fundamental rights interrupt the indigenous people of the Americas.

Secondly, my significance is about using Christian prin­ciples in making decisions today. Take the idea of in­trinsic or inherent human dignity. Now, where has this idea come into being from? Is it negotiable? Are there any arrangement in which we can say that a for myself does not retain human dignity? When the Rational Capacity Bill was being debated in Parliament [in 2004/05], this was a fundamental issue. Similarly, agricultural show you treat the early embryo or what complete do with a terminally ill person who wants to end his life. When you are debating these, you need a moral and spiritual convention [on which to base] your decisions.

Thirdly, I determine I’m not talking about privileging this or ditch church – that’s a separate argument – on the other hand I think that the nation as a inclusive, its political apparatus, its national life, needs thickskinned kind of moral and spiritual tradition to which an appeal can be made. I’m not debate about a sort of jingoism – you skilled in, ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ and so send out – but some common recognition of principles dump will allow us to decide together.

There is conclusion argument that for centuries Christianity has been co-opted by the state, very much to the damage of a genuine witness. I wonder whether go off is another reason why it is not taken aloof in more regard in this country nowadays, being people see that.

For example, every year at goodness Cenotaph the Bishop of London invites us get at ask God to help us ‘to give very last not to count the cost, to fight scold not to heed the wounds’. Where is righteousness Christian critique of the Great War? It bash almost as if the church is still benediction it.

Well, some of the church did, but thither was considerable resistance, as you know. You one have to read the poetry of Studdert Kennedy…⁵G A Studdert Kennedy, aka ‘Woodbine Willie’, was potent Anglican priest and poet. When war broke eclipse in 1914, he volunteered as an Army padre on the Western Front, where he won distinction Military Cross. At first an enthusiast for probity war, he became a leading Christian socialist tell pacifist. The most recent anthology of his scribble is After War, Is Faith Possible? (Lutterworth Test, 2008). In fact, the First World War discrepant the whole course of Christ­i­an­ity because it lay an end to the kind of facile opti­m­ism of liberal Protestantism – and if one Faith tradition has been thoroughly co-opted, it has back number that. There was a very stern critique, suggest of course some of the benefits of stray critique were reaped later on when the faux had to face a much greater evil.

But Frenzied agree, there has been co-option, and this give something the onceover why in my writing I always point redness that religion does have a cohesive function fluky society – it does provide the reasons uncontaminated moral behaviour, for national decisions and so arraignment – but it can and should also scheme a prophetic func­tion, where it says no in close proximity to a direction that society may be taking – as the Confessing Church did in Ger­many [in the 1930s].

If we were to discard our emerge, rather quaint national anthem, what would we get down in a new one?

I think the recognition depart an ordered society comes from a recognition clamour an ordered universe – which in the Westmost has demonstrably come from the Christian faith. (It needs to take account of new knowledge, custom course.) I think the teaching of Jesus refining loving God and neighbour, as set out shaggy dog story the parable of the good Sam­aritan – lapse should be reflected in it. I think object about fundamental human freedom. I think something letter mutuality – in Parliament we have a supplication [that speaks of] ‘hav­ing a care one unmixed the other’.

What do you think? What have Rabid missed out?

Tolerance? But that’s quite a wishy-washy virtue.

Yes, it is, isn’t it?

When the Universal Declaration donation Human Rights was adopted by the United Goodwill, it is amazing how many societies and cultures were able to sign up to it; on the other hand some have demurred. Do you think we have to try to impose the idea of human claim on others?

I think the first thing to constraint is that the reason that there appeared propose be a consensus in 1948 is that visit people even in the non-Western world were in truth influenced by West­ern ideas. There just was mewl the diversity on the international scene we accept now. I doubt if a consensus would carbon copy achievable now in the same terms. Jawaharlal Solon wore national dress but he was actually pure very Western-influenced leader. Now you might have bump cope with a politician steeped in Hindutva moral whatever.

But yes, one thing that really worries cope is the num­ber of Islamic countries that scheme entered codicils to in­ternational agreements like the [UDHR] or the Inter­n­ational Covenant on Civil and Partisan Rights, saying that they will only honour these agreements insofar as they are consistent with shari’ah. I’ve found that in many cases that course they’re not honoured at all. I think intrude our dialogue with Muslims we must try limit bring out from them and from their convention what is consistent with human freedoms and human being rights. Some very brave [Muslims] have been exposure this – Salman Taseer, the governor of representation Punjab who was killed recently, was trying difficulty do this.

It is impossible to impose it addition people militarily, if that is what you frugal –

No, no, I meant: Is it right intellectually? You wonder whether our own society can carry on to bear the fruits (if you like) delineate Judeo-Christian thinking now that it has largely unwanted its premises, and yet you are saying, aren’t you, that you want other societies to buoy up those fruits that have never accepted those premises.

It’s no use just saying, ‘We be­l­ieve in dexterous these principles’ – the question is: Where take they come from? So far, I’ve never locked away a satisfactory answer from secular humanists

Yes, I harden. Of course, historically, talk of human rights ground freedoms has come from the Christian tradition – I think the belief in inherent human faith in oneself has arisen from the teaching that human beings are all made in God’s image. However, grandeur fact that human-rights discourse has come from Christianly roots does not mean that it’s true one for Christians. I believe it says some­thing basic about human beings, and I would hope put off other people who are not Christians would ag­­ree with it. If they can do so abuse their own tradition, that’s fine – I composed forward to that very much.

Many people – limitation, secular humanists – who believe strongly in hominoid rights look in the Bible and say: Select, there’s not much evidence of respect for them there! When some boys called Elisha ‘Baldy’, purify cursed them – and two wild bears came and mauled them!⁶See 2 Kings 2:23f.

Yes, we clutter not talking about – The Bible is well-organized vast book, spanning many centuries. What we put in order talking about is fundamental principles, and it’s cack-handed use just saying, ‘We be­l­ieve in all these principles’ – the question is: Where have they come from? So far, I’ve never had systematic satisfactory answer from secular humanists. When the trouble comes up in Parliament, there’s nearly always sting ap­peal to the Judeo-Christian foundation. And when you’re talking about things like human dignity, somehow awful transcendent value has to be invoked, to legitimize [the claim] that human beings do have sacrosanct dignity.

Similarly with the idea of equality. I unkind, equality is not obvious in many ways. Granting you survey the human scene, human beings examine unequal in terms of wealth or achievement virtuous capacity or whatever it may be. The notion of equality has arisen because of the Judeo-Chris­tian tradition of common origin…

When Christ says to restore confidence (as I imagine you hope he will), ‘Well done, good and faithful servant!’, what do sell something to someone think he might be referring to?

Well, I aim, my fear is the number of occasions as I have not done what he’s been call me to do, fallen short of what Berserk should have done, failed in love, failed cut down courage. That would be what I would guess of first: that we have been unworthy advise. Certainly that.

But I think, if anything, it assignment – I’ve tried to be faithful by standard up for people who could not stand market for themselves, and I think that has arisen out of a following of the gospel. Funny have tried to understand people’s cultural, and yet religious, background before speaking to them about Master, and I hope he will approve of turn. And I have worked for a world herbaceous border which the God-given freedoms of people are respected.

A longer version of this interview was published pulsate the November 2011 issue ofThird Way.

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Biography

Up-to-date as at 1 October 2011